" CATL has thrown its hat into the ring with the Naxtra sodium-ion battery, with 175 Wh/kg and 10,000 lifetime cycles along with operation from -40°C to 70°C. CATL is planning a start-stop battery for trucks using the technology. It has the potential to replace lead-acid batteries. CATL has announced battery pricing at the cell level in volume at $19/kWh. "
For anyone wondering what “10,000 lifetime cycles” means, it’s full charge / discharge to the point that the batteries are at 80% of original capacity so 10,000 is to me an absolutely incredible number.
A typical phone battery is rated for about 500 (you can massively improve this by not charging it beyond 80%).
A typical phone battery is rated for about 500 (you can massively improve this by not charging it beyond 80%).
This 80% thing is incredibly simplified and not even always accurate. Personally I charge to about 95% and my phone batteries remain at 98-100% condition after 2 years of everyday use.
Limiting yourself to 80% doesn’t really make sense. You’re losing 20% capacity instantly, instead of losing it slowly over a few years. To be fair, a lot of people treat their devices so poorly that they may hit the 80% in less than 12 months, so I guess there’s that.
I keep my car charged to 80% to help with battery degradation, and here’s why:
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Most days, I don’t use more than 30% of my battery capacity (roughly 75 miles/120km). Even that’s high. I don’t care if that means I go from 100%->70% or 80%-50% when I’ll charge back up again overnight
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It’s not a permanent setting! If I do go on a longer trip, I’ll bring it back up to 100% and not sweat it!
From what I’ve heard, charging beyond 80% increases the degradation rate, meaning time spent at that level is an important part of the equation. If I keep my phone plugged in overnight and at my desk, I have a lot of time at full charge that I’m not really using, but if I know I’m flying that day or running errands all day I can pop it up to 100% and it will be a non-degraded 100%
I’ve had my S20 far longer than my car and never did limit its charge. It’s fine for me, but the battery is sure showing its age.
I don’t see this as a valid comparison.
- replacement phone batteries are really not that expensive. Don’t overthink it. Is it really a problem you might spend $50-$100 in three years to replace the battery?
- car batteries are not just much more expensive but they’re also overkill. Charging to 80% is more than enough for almost everyone’s daily driving on most vehicles, so why charge more?
Maybe user replaceable phone batteries are making a comeback, but with the way my phone is pretty much sealed up I wouldn’t trust myself to not break it. I’d also be leery of a third-party replacement lithium battery of unknown quality (let’s be honest, that’s what you’ll probably end up with) charging right next to my head while I sleep. Saying that as someone whose friend had a lithium battery fire with her laptop.
Point is, the argument of “why would you try to save your battery by not using it when it has the same net effect of less battery?” is pretty short-sighted.
User replaceable batteries would be actual cheap, would be nice. But iPhone 15 pro battery replacement at Apple is $100, and I’d expect that to be one of the more expensive battery replacements. Many phones will be cheaper, third parties will be cheaper. While I’d rather do it myself, it’s really not that much for once every three years to keep it above 80% health, and 9% of phone replacement cost.
the argument of “why would you try to save your battery by not using it when it has the same net effect of less battery?” is pretty short-sighted.
The argument is
- why try to save your phone battery when it’s critical to last the day and eventual replacement is cheap?
- it’s much more important to save your car battery because you won’t miss reduced range on normal days, you want max range available for road trips, and replacing the battery is very expensive
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Yeah, a friend of mine made a similar argument and I hear it. Personally I’m always right beside a fast charger so it’s not an issue for me.
My phone has an option to auto-stop charging at 80% so I use that. I will occasionally charge it to 100% but like maybe once a month. TBH if it had an option to stop at 90% I’d probably use that as a middle ground (my steam deck does and I use 90% with it). I got 5 years out of my last phone and I’m 3 years into the current one and hoping to get many more out of it.
edit:
Personally I charge to about 95% and my phone batteries remain at 98-100% condition after 2 years of everyday use.
That’s a good reference point, cheers. Do you not find it a pain to monitor that though?
I think that fast charging is almost as damaging as full cycles.
OnePlus claim it’s not and a quick search does back that up. For the one specific to my phone they move a chunk of the work off the device (reducing heat on the phone) and onto the charger. It’ll still charge normally with any USB charger but it gets much hotter and is much slower compared to the OnePlus “warp” charge.
Fair enough. I’m using an OP12 myself. I still don’t buy into the “fast charge ok” bit, but I also know it’s parallel cells and such. I still charge overnight using a 5w charger. :)
80? Shit, I have my phone set at 85…
So, how long do you think 'til the GOP Congress enacts a law blocking said technology and company in order to protect Tesla and oil interests of the United States fascist oligarchy?
You think the Dems won’t help them do it? The Democrats are already backing tariffs and import bans on Chinese cars and solar panels. And I haven’t seen Dems calling out the bans on lab grown meats.
They will engage in the same protectionism, because they’re paid off by the same donors.
Oh yeah, I forgot the Democrats also helped ban cancer vaccines and diabetes cures from Cuba and China. Wake the fuck up.
Tell me which stocks to buy.
Tell me which stocks to sell.
FTFY
Most of the USA sodium battery companies are currently in private equities. You can buy Chinese stocks or just wait until it goes SPAC.
Gold
What will gold do in an apocalypse, time to collect bottle caps
The ones this people buy: https://share.google/PWnmursuqNxjrfSSl
If they are not buying some sodium battery producers, you can bet that somehow those batteries will not be “ready for the market” yet
if i can afford one, i’ll buy a car with it. but if i can’t, i’ll keep using my 04 nissan.
If I recall well, it isn’t a good fit for cars as it energy density per weight isn’t as good. But for residential batteries, that’s huge (if true).
This isn’t true any more, and it’s mentioned in the article. Sodium is at least equivalent to - and on pace to surpass - the energy density of Lithium. It’s already being used in passenger cars in the Far East.
